The first link u provided is kind of silly. His ways border extremism. It is true God is most important but all of this is not necessary. As long as you live a good life free of desire and unnecessary distractions you're good to go. Loving God is the most powerful form of worship.
Was not Jesus’ “ultimate sacrifice” just as material as it was spiritual?
Steve brought up a good point about this. Jesus' ultimate sacrifice was his death. But where is Jesus' body? It ressurrected. The material form is unimportant. Afterall, ultimate happiness is spiritual.

and Just remember alot of these visuals arn't really necessary. they only aid in human understanding of more. Try looking past the visual sense or the many stories to see what they might symbolize. This is why i get so frustrated with literalists. there's too much human understanding inculcated into a perfect state, to take it so very literally.

Ohh in response to your thread God gave us free will. We dont have to worship him but by worshipping him we find perfection. He only wishes us good.

I disagree with the first couple of people in your thread because I believe God is perfect. He created us in perfection and gave us free will. In turn we fell into imperfection. We chose it!! IT is OUR fault.
Eric for instance stated that you should respect imperfect gods for the same reason you respect your parents. (However, there is a point where parents are no longer worthy of respect) I think people worship imperfect gods because they cannot relate with
a perfect one. Is it not easier for the human mind to worship imperfection since it is visible here on earth? Just as it is is easier to fathom the idea of splitting up a god into multiple deities. In addition, there is no way that the human mind could ever comprehend the perfection of god. That is why we strive for perfection in our imperfect state. Heaven is perfection. If by the end of your life you figure this and other essentials out you have neared human perfection, to an extent.
The devil leads us astray from perfection through deceit. He's visible in so many places here on earth. If you just look around you can feel it. Every time your tempted to do something wrong and go through with it you've given into the devil. And if you continue on this path of ignorance to perfection it leads you to hell, the most complete form of imperfection. And the evidence of this is the completeness that we feel in the moments of human perfection that we experience here on earth.
It's all a state of mind....

yes!! i deciphered the internet connection problems!! for some strange and unapparent reason SBC changed our username without cause. and it took me like 4 days to call them and find out why. (I hate making phonecalls)
So hopefully I'll be able to write back to you soon. I almost feel its kind of hopeless though because we're just playing with words.
here's some quick stuff that i can think of:
The Hermes thing did not offend us, it just seemed rather silly that you were blaming your actions on something other then yourself. But, i suppose i can understand because, i've moments where i know the devil is trying to take control of me. But that does not mean i blame him because i have free will.
Ryan read this before me and pointed out that, Dionysos unlike Jesus had a bunch of naked sex craved girls chasing after him. I dunno if that means anything.
Concerning your definitions...do you pray to your computer then? because a computer it not a deity, yet accordingly you worship it.

Definitions of Terms

Here's the definitions that both Steve and Jess wanted. Please keep in mind, however, that these are by now means set defintions and can easily change.

god: A person, god, hero, demi-god, cthonic diety, nature spirit, or item which is focused on by a “supplicant” for an extended period of time, by means of sacrifice whether material or intangible, so that the said “supplicant” may either reach a desired end, receive an object of their desire, or go become a desired state of mind.

prayer: Any mental, verbal, or physical expression of praise, thanksgiving, or supplication addressed to one of the individual’s deities, usually with some form of a self-serving intent.

Oh, and to clarify about the whole "Hermes made me do it" thing. Apparrantly that offended both Jess and Steve for some reason, so I figure I should explain myself. That was mostly me fooling around with my good friend. However, I was also referring to many of the god's symbolic qualities in both myth and ancient literature as the literal emotions of people. For example, Hera is often symbolic in certain myths of jealousy and vengence. Don't ask me who made that up, because the goddess of marriage definitely can't be constantly jealous otherwise there would be no marriage, lol! But oftentimes certain mythological characters (there's a specific one in my mind that I can't for the life of me remember the name of!), or even humans will be said to have been made insane by Hera's wrath, usually meaning the character was so overcome by such an intense feeling of jealousy and anger that was so unlike their normal personalities it was said to have been inflicted upon them by the gods. That was the kind of thing I was joking around with.

Oh, and by the way, here are some links of interest that you might like.

A Short Article Written by a Reformist Muslim on the Whole "Your God is Whatever You Think About Most" Issue

A Defense of Polytheism Against Monotheism by Several Pagans and Heathens

The Ivy Covered Cross: An Article Comparing the Myths of Jesus and Dionysos

Random Stuff

Poor Jessica, getting a number from a cute guy every Wednesday? How rough life is for you, lol! Let's see, the last time that happened to me was . . . never. But I'm over it. Oh, and I don't mind that you talk about Ryan, it is your blog after all, in my previous post I was trying to prove the point through humor that people like to add things, and complicate things, and that life is so much more interesting when it has little blurbs of useless information attached to it!

Oh, and Nelle? Where were you today? I was all alone in Latin!!!! You better come to school tommorrow. You are not sick.

Oh, and hey Steve! I'll have the definitions for you later, I'm just leaving work right now so I don't exactly have time.

I know this is random, but . . .

Many thanks to Hermes, who found my car keys for me today! I lost them, and was running frantically around the school looking for them, when I started frantically praying to Hermes to help me because I was so screwed and then, viola! God (or probably Hera in this case, seeing as the voice was female) crackled over the loudspeaker and said "Anyone who is looking for keys please check the Library." And I found them!!!!! I was so happy! My Dolios found them for me! So thanks Hermes.

Now back to your regularly scheduled blog.

um ok im too lazy to read all that...damn

Larissa all I have to say is holy shit!! because that was 6 pages long!!!! I pasted it into word just so i could see and yea...*nods head* I really want to write back to it tonight. But i know it will take me like 3 hours to even get anywhere close to answering it in the way I want to. And i have alot of stuff to do before sleep yet. Too bad i just got home from work. :-/
But the one thing i do have to say is we're thinking on a completely different level. I tend to think above details lately. Words are meaningless. Different people have different opinions but essentially it's all the same. and grr i really want to say more but i HAVE to stop myself!
lol yea i almost just started up again but i'm doen really I am.
The bad thing is I have to rant about ryan now. Sorry larissa. It's just the main thing bothering me today...
So today kinda sucked. I need to start eating and sleeping more. Esp. cuz I'm sick and have been for 3 weeks. But right around lunch time i started to feel real ick. And when i feel ick I'm never quite concious. So I do stuff like miss my ride home because they come early. Well I don't think that was my fault really. It wasn't Ryan's either. It was just very bad luck. My chi:-P is against me lately.
And i was so determined that ryan would not drive me to work. and so was he but then all the sudden i had no way to get home. And now he's gonna lose his job because no one will bring him to work. And it's all my fault. No matter what we do it's all wrong. There's always something that could be done better. I just wanna be 16!! And everybody hates me and they always will. Its the end of the world... And really I just wanna cry(no i don't cry not me) but at the same time there's only 6 more months and we can do this. I'm determined. It's funny every wednesday I get at least one cute guy who asks me for my phone number and i'm always just like "nope sorry i have a boyfriend." Completely free of any desire to flirt. How could i ever wanna go out with a normal guy after ryan?(By normal i mean raging hormones and immature) I'm sure there's probably plenty of nice guys out there but no one like ryan. I'd be soooo stupid to give that up. *important note* If he ever wanted to be free I'd let him go...with reservations of course but with understanding. Thats just for all those people out there who think I'm obsessed.
Theres alot more i want to say... but I think opinions kept to myself may benefit people in the future.
I just can't wait until August 13th...

Response to Jess' Eloquent Response to Me

Wow, so much to say and yet so little time . . . First of all, I’m glad that we are able to have these conversations and that we are both mature enough to discuss this intellectually so that we won’t become insulted by the other’s opinions. I think these discussions will be good for both of us as long as we maintain this attitude. :D! Second of all, I’m sorry if I make you uncomfortable with my more formal method of debate. I’m used to discussing theological and ethical things using correct grammar, spelling, and sentences because of the fact that I am a Reconstructionist. Our discussions are typically very formal because of the fact that our religion is so deeply connected to the scholarly aspects of life that it carries over into our discussions, and hence into my personal writing as well. If you’d prefer our conversations to be more informal I could easily do that. Having said all of that, on with the show!

I’m sorry about the mix-up between Andrew and Anthony, faulty information is inexcusable in an intellectual debate. This will teach me to check my information!! Bad Larissa, bad Larissa!

And commonly the definition of “lost things” is thought of as material. However, i believe that this is a misconception and myth that has developed over time.

What about the life of St. Anthony and the history of the Catholic Church led you to that conclusion? I know nothing about St. Anthony besides that he presides over “lost things”, so I’m not trying to criticize you, I am simply curious.

Ideally we would pray to St. Anthony because we have lost our soul or self.

Why would you not pray to God instead? Is not God more powerful than the powers of this petty human? Is it perhaps because St. Anthony is someone who can identify with these feelings of loss? Or because he is a more personal entity which can interact with on a more personal basis than an infinite God?

You tend to take everything concerning Catholicism so literally . . .

And how am I supposed to take it? I unfortunately am not a telepath (or I would be getting a much better History grade!), and therefore must resort to literal definitions. If you do not plan on saying what you mean then why say it?

We hold them high because they fill a special place in our heart. We do the same to anyone who has left an imprint in our life. This is just a human characteristic.

Just to remind you, you were discussing ancestors when you said this (just so you don’t have to look it up!). But is not the reason spirits are worshiped because they are held up on high in human minds? And the point I am trying to make is exactly what you just said, that this habit of exalting humans and multiple spirits is an essential human characteristic, and that mostly everyone is polytheistic at heart.

I think there is a distinct difference between loving someone and worshiping someone.

I would love to hear the difference, because if we’re discussing the kind of passionate erotic love that I think we are then I really can’t think of a difference. Both the lover and the god are given gifts, both material and non-material. Both the lover and the god arouse (not that kind of arouse!) a passionate and devoted love in the person, and both the lover and the god have an intimate relationship with the person that no one else can have. Could not the lover therefore be logically “treated” in the same way in the person’s mind, and therefore worshiped?

I do not pray to Ryan or believe that he is perfect.

It depends on what your definition of “pray” is whether you do it or not. You most likely do not offer him prayers of supplication because you don’t believe he has the power to save you from any sort of spiritual damnation. However, you do have intimate conversations with him, do you not? Those conversations, because they are so deep and intimate to you two alone could be considered contact prayers, where you’re mostly relishing in each other’s presence and searching for a deeper connection. Lol, you concept of a god is very skewed by the monotheistic legacy. A god does not have to be perfect to be a god. The Hellenic gods are not perfect by any means, and the Norse gods aren’t even immortal, never mind perfect! It’s part of their appeal.

As much as I love words I really just hate them sometimes.

Lol, for me it depends on whether or not these words are written or spoken. I love the written word, but speaking for me is so annoying. I suppose it’s mostly because I’m not that good at communicating my thoughts orally, which is why I tend to like to write out my opinions and beliefs. Oh, and the fact that the English language is not a very good language to express oneself in might have something to do with it!

Again, I don’t think of placing flowers on a grave as a sacrifice. It’s a mere remembrance.

You would be unique in that belief, because most people tend to give items to the dead person on their grave. The flowers are the dead person’s flowers, rather than the person who placed them there’s. It’s not only flowers. Remember in Don’t Say a Word when the little girl put the doll in her father’s grave? That wasn’t an act of remembrance, that was a gift, or an offering. Whatever you prefer to call it! It’s the natural human tendency to offer something material to the dead, or to a deity. Do these instincts come from nowhere?

My interpretation of the burning of incense is to remind us of our roots and where we came from.

Perhaps I was a little far-fetched on the incense thing. To me as a pagan (note the “little ‘p’”) incense has natural connections with prayer and offerings because of the fact that the smoke rises into the heavens, bringing our prayers along with it.

We are born of dust and it is to dust that we return.

Speaking of “dust” on Ash Wednesday? Is this a coincidence? Or perhaps *dun dun dun* religious propaganda!!!!!! Kidding, an accident most likely. Or perhaps it is a sign from Jesus or Yahweh telling us that our conversation is blessed? We may never know! *dramatic music plays*

Offerings should be intangible because ideally material things should not constitute the mainstream of our life.

A Dionysian would not agree with you, my friend! She (or even he) would probably say that it is only through the indulgence of our desires that we see who we truly are beneath the layers of masks we build to protect ourselves from the revelation of our true self. She would probably also say that by permanently subduing these desires we are permanently burying our true selves, and therefore are going nowhere. However, I am not a Dionysian, so I should probably shuttup! As a Hellene, however, I would have to argue that the offering of material things is more helpful to building a relationship with a deity than non-material things, mostly because of our half of the relationship. When I offer a stick of gum, or a piece of bread to a god I am not honestly expecting the god to waltz down from Olympos (quite a long waltz if you ask me, lol!), pick up the piece of bread, eat it, burp, and say “Thanks! I needed that! I was starving!” I do it because it is a physical representation of my willingness to give up something valuable to me (what could be more valuable than food?) in order to form a better relationship with the god, or to even show my appreciation for the help he/she has given me. Most sacrifices tend to involve a material object because we as humans are very sensory-oriented beings which need a tangible object to prove to our minds that we truly have sacrificed. Was not Jesus’ “ultimate sacrifice” just as material as it was spiritual?

In my opinion the purpose of religion is to set you on the path to salvation and goodness. Is that not the purpose of every major world denomination?

Yes, it is, but you are forgetting that I do not belong to a major world denomination, thank Zeus! I, and practically every other Reconstructionist, do not ascribe to the whole goodness=salvation=eternal happiness=run around like insane bunnies on crack theory. I’d elaborate, but I’m getting too lazy, lol!

We just define gods much differently.

Lol, I’ve noticed! It comes from the monotheistic tradition, I suppose.

. . .but I see how you’ve come to your conclusions.

It’s always a good thing for one to understand the reason’s for another’s opinions! :D!

Hun, I know what hubris means. Do I seem that stupid?

Do you really want me to answer that Jessica? Lol, Hermes put me up to it! But even so, I must accept the blame *bows head in shame*.

And since when do animals worship?

A Muslim would say that animals are in a natural state of worship, but I am not a Muslim. But to answer your question let me ask you a question. Has Bruno ever been extraordinarily happy? Sad? Angry? Are not these states of emotions, these pure states of emotion, honoring the gods who preside over these emotions in a way that is greater than our own? In this respect, I believe that animals do worship, at times more purely than we humans do.

Animals live life out of pure instinct and experience.

Are we any better?

See how much more interesting your creation story is? It’s like a soap opera.

Come now, no need to get jealous because my religion is cooler than yours! Lol! I mean, I belong to it, so it has to be made cool just by my presence. But seriously, no one really believes in that story anymore. It’s just a cool story to tell which talks about the nature of both Zeus and mankind.

It’s just a glorified version of Adam and Eve.

Except for the fact that these myths were probably created earlier than the Hebrew one, and the fact that they were most definitely created without Jewish intervention. Also, when you don’t write these things down as a point of reference, things do tend to get embellished. The story wasn’t probably originally as detailed.

Hope=free will.

No, hope would equal hope, lol! Hellenic theology says humans always had free will, we don’t need a box to get it!

The world will keep getting worse until it comes to an end and God will return to earth and lead us to salvation.

To clarify, I never said that was what I believed, I said that was what Hesiod believed. Hellenismos is not orthodoxic, so I frankly don’t have to believe in any sort of theological argument that anyone brings up if I don’t think it makes sense, short of atheism. I personally believe that we’re getting better in some respects, and worse in others. It’s all about the eternal balance, I suppose.

How realistic are half of your beliefs?

*raises eyebrows* If my appeared to be realistic to the majority of the world they wouldn’t be called beliefs, they would be called truths.

. . . I find it hypocritical to make fun of any of the far-fetched Catholic ideas.

Which ones weren’t far-fetched again? Lol, sorry. Hermes again. Shame on you Hermes for mocking Jessica’s beliefs, shame shame!

And I know you like to be able to make fun of what you believe. But it’s hard for me to find anything silly or worthy of being made fun of.

Perhaps Hermes should pay you a visit! But then again, you may not want that because you’ll get this annoying *glances at Hermes peeking over shoulder and smiles* voice in your head cracking jokes all the time that you have to say/write. Perhaps I should beg Apollon to teach me some self-control!

To me it’s all very true and I can find explanations for each and every thing.

How unfortunate! I find it’s the not-knowing and the discovering that’s the interesting part of life.

Just as I don’t make fun of your beliefs because I see where they originated.

Humor is an interesting form of criticism. It can be very constructive as it can get your point across in an amiable way.

Bahai’is stand for a united world religion and they’re way ahead of us for it.

Why would you want a unified World Religion? So everyone can become little drones and all believe in the same thing? Our differences are constructive to the growth of both ourselves and others. Also, no one religion can suit everyone’s personal needs, and I believe it’s arrogant to try to create one.

As Ryan and I discussed for nearly 3 hours tonight . . .

*raises eyebrows, prepares to make some comment about idol-worship, but remains silent*

I’m not going to even try to quote that strange mix of he’s and they’s you gave me, lol! But I don’t believe that all gods are good, and even the nicer ones aren’t all “good” in our sense of the word. Gods have different rules to follow, as they are different beings, and our sense of morality cannot be applied to them.

. . . everything is united.

But if you unite everything into this big mesh of . . . something, then you deny the true essence of what each individual thing is. If you meshed 100 people in a room from all over the globe and then asked them to submit a completed questionnaire on their individual habits, personalities, and opinions and then took the majority’s view on each question and turned those habits, personalities, and opinions into a person you would come up with a person that does not exist. It would be this fantasy creation that would comprise of parts of the individuals from which it came, but it would not be a true representation of the individuals in that room. By creating this imaginary person you are not getting to know the 100 people in that room, but getting to know some idealized fantasy. That is the danger of unification.

The complexities are unnecessary,

If they were necessary they wouldn’t be complexities. If they were necessary then people probably wouldn’t desire them. Simplicity is not always best.

But I owe all of this thought and most of the opinions I’ve expressed to Ryan because he’s helped me come to these conclusions. Without him I’d be nowhere.

Jessica! You are needlessly complicating our discussion by that unnecessary comment! I’m ashamed! Simplicity is best, you know! Best leave Magnet-Boy to his own separate sphere! Lol! Oh yeah, and I forgot, *gags from too much mushiness*. Is there such a thing as too much online PDA's?

Larissa

*I smell dead people . . . oh wait, it’s just your breath!*

ahhh sooo much to write back to!! Unfortunately I can't write for shit today. But I'll give it my best attempt...
First of all Catholics ask St. Anthony not St. Andrew to help them find lost things. And commonly the definition of "lost things" is thought of as material. However, i believe that this is a misconception and myth that has developed over time. Ideally we would pray to St. Anthony because we have lost our soul or self. We have lost the basis of who we are and strive to be. And yet again we do not pray to them like we would a god. He is only a messenger of God who has lived his life ideally.
You tend to take everything concerning Catholicism so literally when there's so much to see behind it all. Yet at the same time there's so little necessary.
Again, I believe that we look to our ancestors for guidance because they've already conquered life to the best of their abilities. We hold them high because they fill a special place in our heart. We do the same to anyone who has left an imprint in our life. This is just a human characteristic. What do you mean by worship? I think there is a distinct difference between loving someone and worshiping someone. It's true there is a finite line but they're not the same. Maybe you just define it differently than I.
I do not pray to Ryan or believe that he is perfect. He is definitely a huge part of my life and he constitutes who I am in many ways but I don’t worship him. We get in fights and make mistakes, we offer constructive criticism to each other, and even if we may seem overly in love it’s only because we’re excited to learn and experience something so great.
You say Catholics merely deny that they worship things other then God. Well maybe they do. I can’t speak for the entire Catholic population. But it seems that you really just define it differently. As much as I love words I really just hate them sometimes.
Again I don’t think of placing flowers on a grave as a sacrifice. It’s mere remembrance. My interpretation of the burning of incense is to remind us of our roots and where we came from. We are born of dust and it is to dust that we return. God is everywhere even in the air we breath. Hence, incense. You know stuff like that.
Offerings should be intangible because ideally material things should not constitute the mainstream of our life. I mean they can be part of your life and a necessity to the extent that you learn something from them but they should not take over because that introduces selfish -desire.
I think we believe a lot of the same things; they are just masked by different words. Because when u take all the fancy words away everything is basically just a different version of the truth. You get stuck on words a lot. In my opinion the purpose of religion is to set you on the path to salvation and goodness. Is that not the purpose of every major world denomination?
I commend you for your belief that we each have our own gods!! That is so true!! I just believe it in the sense that your different gods are equivalent to my belief system. What leads me through life and guides me to love and loving others may not be what guides everyone else. Do u get it? Your gods are like the major influences that I will experience in my lifetime. Such as, like you said, Ryan. So you’re we agree in that sense. We just define gods much differently. And such differences are trivial…but I see how you’ve come to your conclusions.
What I mean by: “why create something that isn’t there” is that my Catholic version of God is everything that your gods comprise when combined. So for me to take Jesus and assign him as creator of only one of the things that I believe he is responsible would mean to complicate things. It’s just natural for me to accept the monotheistic belief because I was brought up with it. But I think that yours is just as valid. No matter how different it may seem it’s only another way of believing the same thing.
Hun, I know what hubris means. Do I seem that stupid? J I can only say that Apollon does not exist because I believe that my Catholic God is constantly working through every life force. He is a part of everything. He’s in the air we breathe, the birds that chirp, that wonderful sunset, and the starry moonlit sky that we witness each day. After all, "Music is God's gift to man, the only art of Heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to Heaven." I cannot say that you do not witness such greatness. That would be naïve of me. In fact I know that you do just by what you’ve said. But when you think of Hermes I think of God. I did not mean to insult your beliefs. Hopefully from what I’ve said you’ll understand where I’m coming from. Even I have sometimes wondered if my faith was based upon untruths but I now realize how trivial that all is because the form it takes is unimportant. And since when do animals worship? Lol I may be teetering on the brink of vegetarianism but I know that animals do not have human souls. They have animal souls and serve an animal purpose. They relish in Gods creations out of instinct. Although, it is attractive (for ex. To people like KT) to believe they are more because they’re often so cute and cuddly, it’s elementary. Animals live life out of pure instinct and experience.
Precisely what I’m trying to get at!! See how much more interesting your creation story is? It’s like a soap opera. Is all that necessary? I probably would have gone for it at one point too. But it’s just a glorified version of Adam and Eve. Your box=the tree of good and evil. Hope=free will. The world will keep getting worse until it comes to an end and God will return to earth and lead us to salvation. How realistic are half of your beliefs? Not very, so I find it hypocritical to make fun of any of the far-fetched Catholic ideas. You have to look behind things. It’s all symbolism as in any denomination. And there are so many connections. And I know you like to be able to make fun of what you believe. But it’s hard for me to find anything silly or worthy of being made fun of. To me it’s all very true and I can find explanations for each and every thing. Just as I don’t make fun of your beliefs because I see where they originated.
I only asked because I was curious as to what you believed.
In conclusion, words are a curse and a blessing.:-P Bahai’is stand for a united world religion and they’re way ahead of us for it. They recognize that denominations are merely different versions of the same beliefs, consisting of different traditions. As Ryan and I discussed for nearly 3 hours tonight, you just have to remember that God (or gods in your case) is/are good and he/they is/are everything, stuff (a distinct version of desire) gets in the way of truth, when you see the truth you know it and you’ll never forget it, everyone practices something that they believe and it’s a all another version of something someone else believes, and everything is united. This is why I say: why complicate things? The complexities are unnecessary,
But I owe all of this thought and most of the opinions I’ve expressed to Ryan because he’s helped me come to these conclusions. Without him I’d be nowhere.

Response

Catholics tend to do more than just honor the person's accomplishments. They ask the saints for things, and they also ask their dead ancestors for things. For example, a Catholic would ask St. Andrew to help them find something they had lost because he specializes in helping people to find things. It is his job, if you will. Also, as you yourself pointed out, Catholics tend to ask their ancestors for guidance, just as many pagans/heathens (there IS a difference) do. The only difference is pagans/heathens will often offer tangible objects to these "spirits", such as wine, bread, and incense, while Catholics often offer intangible objects to these "spirits", such as their time and thoughts. Also pagans/heathens will admit to "worshipping" their ancestors, while Catholics tend to adamantly deny it. The same goes for saints, which would fall under the "hero" category in Hellenic theology. While many Catholics, especially in European and Latin American countries, will offer incense or flowers to saints, the majority of offerings are intangible. Asking for something from a non-earthly being higher than you, whether it's intercession or finding a lost object, is by definition prayer. And when you pray to something other than a one God you are recognizing that there is more than one spiritual power in the world, and you are polytheistic. Oh, and just because there is a general consensus that a saint is not equal in status to God, does not mean that this saint is not worshipped. Zeus is far stronger than all the other Hellenic gods (and demi-gods, cthonic dieties, nature spirits, heroes, . . . et cetera), but that does not mean that the rest of the gods are not gods. It just means that Zeus is stronger than they are.

It is my personal theory that nearly everyone is polytheistic at heart, but few admit it. One of the many valuable things that I learned from Islam is that your personal gods may not necessarily show up in a mythology handbook (whether it's Hesiod's Theogony, the Bible, the Qu'ran, or anything else). Your gods are anything and everything that take up a considerable amount of time, effort, and thought. For example, I do worship "traditional" dieties such as Apollon, Hermes, Aphrodite, Dionysos, Demeter, etc., but I also worship non-traditional "spirits" and objects such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (falls under hero category :D), books, television, even the internet simply because I sacrifice so much of my time and thought to them. I worship them, I pay them homage, I "venerate" them, whatever you want to call it. Your principal diety, for example, probably isn't Yahweh (or Jehovah), but is most likely Ryan (how idolatrous, ;D) simply because so much of your time and energy revolves around him. I know it's an unsettling theory, especially for monotheists, but it's the conclusion I've come to.

Oh, and one more thing . . . "why create something that isn't there?" Excuse me? Would you like to rephrase that statement, because I personally find it insulting and bordering on hubris (look it up). When you're listening to your favorite music and you become surrounded by the beauty of music that you are in a moment of complete ecstasy can you honestly tell me that Apollon does not exist? When you're walking in the woods and surrounded by the beauty of Nature and can see for yourself how alive the world is, can you honestly tell me that Ge and Demeter do not exist? When all the world seems to shake with the thunder from the storm and you are staring out the window in awe and terror can you honestly tell me that Zeus does not exist? When you sneak up behind your friend and cover their eyes trying to suppress a giggle so she won't figure out it's you, can you honestly tell me that Hermes is not right by your side laughing as well? How dare you insult me and my gods by claiming they are some fantasy made by my mind to satiate my arrogant desires! For if they are my personal fantasy, they seem to be a pretty universal one. For how is it that these are a product of the human mind when all the animal world seems to relish in the worship of these gods as well? The world is not some idealogical crusade, Jessica.

Oh, and Hellene's don't really have an "Adam and Eve" story, per se. The first beings around were the Primordials, who tend to be distant dieties who seem to have no desire for relationship with mortals. Such dieties are Khaos, Ouranos, Ge, and even Eros (although according to some Eros is identical to the Roman Cupid, and therefore not a Primordial). The gods worked out their system, more and more were created, and then Zeus created humans out of . . . shit, I should know this. Lol, I'll look it up. He created them for some reason. They were pretty stupid until Prometheus stole Fire from Zeus and gave it to Humans, and Zeus in retribution for Prometheus' rash actions made Hephaistos build Pandora, a metal robot-like woman who brought a box to the humans, which they stupidly opened although Prometheus warned them against it, and out of it came disease and all that lovely shit. But along with that curse there remained Hope, which is Zeus' true gift to human-kind. There are also various kinds of humans, according to Hesiod the world will keep getting worse and worse until . . . I don't know when, probably until we destroy ourselves. That was probably a more moral observation than a theological opinion though, and few modern Hellenes adhere to that theory. Why'd you ask anywho?

Larissa

ohh work was so much fun yesterday. It's alot better when ryan is there. Yesterday Andrea let us go on break together and she was like "I'm a matchmaker at heart". lol we couldn't have a cooler boss when it comes to that stuff. She apologizes when she can't schedule us on the same shift.(which is pretty silly) Nearly everyone knows we're going out and there's no issues. but i'm still pretty careful just in case the tables turn. It's pretty late and there's school tomorrow but i have an essay to finish up that i shoulda done a long time ago. So no sleep tonight i guess. I don't really feel like it neway. Vacation turned me into a night owl. I just know i'll suffer tomorrow. But no worries there's a half day on friday. :-)
Vaca was pretty packed I was busy every day. don't ask me what I did. I just know there was no time for homework. :-( kinda disappointed in myself because i should have been studying for SATs more.
i need to open a bank account. must save for a car...I've made so much money since last summer but i don't know where it all went...I spend it on clothes, everyday necessities, and other people way too much.

license and vegetarianism

lol thanks for the advice. I was just joking about the mad cow thing. I'm usually a risk taker. And I really do enjoy vegetarian foods. I'll settle for tofu, soy milk, and a veggie burger any day. It is healthier in the sense that I have to eat more concienciously. Therefore i eat less junk food and stuff. I find that when i eat meat i just eat whatever is put in front of me and eat wayy too much. I've probably gained 30 lbs since the end of freshman year and 15-20 this school year alone (definately blame that on ryan though cuz hes done the same thing:-P) But it's time for me to shape up!!
ohh and i'm still going to eat fish because i feel that it's vital that i get some source of protein. So i'm not anal about it...

Ahhh so i've been waiting to say this the whole time. I GOT MY LICENSE!!! yay! :-) The relieved feeling you get right afterwards is so awesome. I got 1 ? wrong on the laws test and 1 check for signalling. It was so funny. At the end she was like so how do you think you did? and i was like ummm ok...but my signalling was a little off. :-/ lol and she hands me the paper and the only check i got was for signalling. But that was a minor thing. I'm SOOO glad i didn't get one of those massive old fat guys that takes up the whole front seat and breaths down your neck. so that was cool. It's funny how calm you can be before hand but when taking the test that all changes and I could only think to pray our fathers that I wouldn't fail and have to wait 2 months to get another appointment. And then on the way home i was just like thankyou thankyou thankyou god!! Definate holy spirit moment. The realization of greater freedom. And hopefully no more sitting around at school. ugh i have to go write that english essay. I decided last night that i didn't have time to do it. My other tests seemed to go well though. So much for friday the 13th superstitions. i shouldn't say that till midnight huh?

mad cow disease

just to let you know they test for mad cow disease and any meat infected is recalled for further testing. on top of that the only way meat can get infected with the disease is if the spinal cord is split during the cutting process or if you eat the brain. other than that meat is usually safe to eat. (been learning about it in agriculture.)
-kim

p.s vegetarianism isn't always healthier cause your body might miss out on some of the nutrients and proteins your body would naturally get from meats and other meat products. the only way to get atmost 3/4 of those proteins is through tofu (which is gross).

*peels eyelids open* I can't do this...*cries!!*
I've gotten so little sleep in the past 2 weeks. prob 7 hours in the past 2 days. and i hardly have the will to move. I hate not being able to sleep in on any day of the week. I wake up at 4:30-5 every day of the week. except sunday. 8 is sleeping in for me. and then of course for some reason i can never go to sleep early because there's ALWAYS something to do or someone who needs something. And i end up in bed wayy too late. i had work tonight and its so overwhelming because i had so little sleep as it is and then vaca is coming up so i have a million tests friday( math, chem., history tomorrow). including my driving exam. and then a paper to write for english by friday(worth a test grade). and i never get home until 4:30 at the earliest so i really don't see how i'm going to pull all of this off by friday. ohh and on top of i'm really sick of coffee or any caffeinated beverage and i'm having caffeine withdrawls like wo(thx to dunkin donuts). so i've pretty much been working for 16 hours straight today. And i've decided its all up to God now. I have to go memorize a chapter of history for the test tomorrow and plan out 4 essays. Which means the cycle will only continue...There's no time to end it...I just have to be sure to stay away from couches or anything remotely close to a bed. like counters and stuff. a counter would be real nice right now. ok i'm done babbling. Hopefully anyone who reads my journal got bored and stopped reading by this time neways.
I finally gave up meat for good. I'd rather not risk mad cow disease...plus vegetarianism is much healthier. I think i saw 2 shooting stars on the way home from work tonight but i may have just been seeing things. Either way they were cool.:-) Poor Bruno is pretty tired too but he always has to sit on my lap while i'm working. Very faithful dog. :-)

I'm officially addicted to lifeteen.com! I can't seem to stop posting and start getting my homework done...ok ok signing off as of...now!

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~YAY!! *cheers!* Ryan got an 81 on his calculus test!!! This seriously makes my whole week (more than getting my drivers license on friday) I know it meant alot to him too. He really needed positive feedback to get back on the right track. keep it up babe. :-) lots of love to help you through...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

pretty neat article.. I never thought of it that way...

http://astrocenter.astrology.msn.com/msn/ArticleDeptLove.aspx?sd=20030812

lol i've been so wierd lately. Where's the Jess we all know?!! I'm too much of a girl. Hormones are all screwed up. peace jess!!
p.s. I love Bruno!!!

I don't hate changing i just wish others would change with me...I'll always be here but not really. not on the same level...

YES i have conquered chem and algebra!!!

I am in dire need of some blogging!! I get so grumpy when i don't write. Yea i know its wierd...
ok so first of all my weekend was awesome but i'm really tired.
Went to the 99 with ryan on friday and we ate way too much. worked on sat morning(6am!!). Saturday afternoon I went to Norwich to drive around and see where they might test me. Afterwards we went to my mom's since norwich is half way to New London. Didn't get home till like midnight. On the way home my eyes kept fogging up and i was saying peculiar things so I pulled over in willimantic to make aunt G drive.
Superbowl sunday was a blast!!!! Started out with church, then Ryan and i went to Big Y to pick up some snacks. We spent $40!! So between friday and sunday that was $80 and i really can't spend anymore if i ever wanna buy a car. lol
But we had soooo much fun!! Between when we got and game time we tried to learn banjo and mandolin. He's really awesome at banjo but i happen to have no beat so it's real hard for me. :-(
At around 5 we cooked dinner(tacos) together. Then it was game time so we watched in the living room. Turns out after the tacos we were wayyy too full to eat any of the snacks we had bought. So we had like 2 bags of doritos, a ton of ice cream, crackers and cheese, nachos, and a couple liters of soda that we didn't even get to.
We played twister and ryan fell on me and like broke my arm off*ouch!*. :-P Katherine had us in some odd positions and i couldn't stop laughing. We had a ton of fun playing with jacob too. He did some really cute stuff. Accidently i taught him how to say "shutup". lol
and my belching was definately supreme to yours Ryan!! lol j/k i think we're about equal...as long as i have soda anyway.
I tried to wrestle Ryan and it was a big mistake because i started out on top but ended up on the bottom. I think I'll stick with wrestling Jacob. He's alot easier to defeat. :-P
Some goodtimes:
"I think I have to take my shirt off...what? ahhhh!!" Don't ask!! lol
Jacob picks up an empty pepsi can, he flicks the tab like he's opening it, then drinks what is left and throws his head back, gets it all over his face, and wipes his face with the back of his hand, then sighs as if satisfied! lol ok it was just really funny i can't explain it. perfect for a pepsi commercial!
accidently teaching jacob stuff he shouldn't know. :-/
"Meow!" crawling around on the floor like a cat....
seductively dancing during halftime...lol
"Ryan are you looking at the cheerleaders?! You are arn't you!! Stoppit they're too sexy!!"
"You think they're sexy? Noo my girlfriends gay!"
running around really hyper and half asleep....can't beat it!!
The game was shabangin!! first half really sucked but it picked up like wo after that. The patriots won so Ryan owes me a sweatshirt now.:-P during last quarter i had a really hard time watching. It was so close that i was afraid they would lose. It couldn't have been planned better for tv. Vinatieri was pitiful. Brady was awesome just cuz i love him.
So i really got no sleep all week. and today i finally broke down and couldn't go to school. I tried but felt really sick when i woke up. Ryan tried to help me with algebra and chem yesterday but chem is hopeless. I think its mostly because i was so tired i couldn't think straight. We worked relentlessly from 2 to 5. thx for trying babe.
So i stayed home today. and woke up around 10:15 really regretting it. I should have been able to handle a lack of sleep. Doesn't show much for my stamina.
But it'll pay off cuz i had a ton of laundry to do, and i have work tomorrow, and a couple of tests coming up, as well as my license exam on friday.
Helped katherine with her homework tonight. hopefully i can do it more often. Ryan and i decided yesterday that we're gonna read more often. We'll read books together and critique them.
I don't know where to start on my homework. It's kind of hopeless. I just don't get chem and i know i'll get algebra if only i had someone who could explain it to me. with that thought i gotta go work on hw...
wish me luck on the test friday cuz i really need my license...