The Hermes thing did not offend us, it just seemed rather silly that you were blaming your actions on something other then yourself. But, i suppose i can understand because, i've moments where i know the devil is trying to take control of me. But that does not mean i blame him because i have free will.
I am fully aware that I am responsible for my own actions. All throughout mythology there have been cases where people who were even taken over entirely by dieties were still held accountable for their own actions. Just because Hermes inspired my state of mind doesn’t mean that I am any less to blame for my actions.
Ryan read this before me and pointed out that, Dionysos unlike Jesus had a bunch of naked sex craved girls chasing after him. I dunno if that means anything.
True, the actual moral and philosophical teachings of Jesus and Dionysos are almost on the opposite end of the spectrum. Jesus teaches personal salvation (or in Hellenic terms a greater understanding of yourself, the gods, and the world around you) through abstinence and adherence to a set of strict moral guidelines. Dionysos, on the other hand, teaches that you can have a greater understanding of yourself through indulgence. Only when all your desires have been satisfied (and therefore disappear) can see your true nature. If I had to make any comparison between Jesus I would say that Jesus is an interesting mix between Dionysos and Apollon. Jesus’ more mystical half is Dionysos. Both are wine gods which have been put on a wooden cross (for Dionysos it was the ship masts which intersect in the shape of the cross), resurrected (although for Dionysos this happened before the whole cross thing), and have saved their faithful followers. Jesus’ more didactic side, however, more resembles Apollon. Both Jesus and Apollon were seen to be showing humanity the will of their respective fathers, and both taught a high moral code. Oh, and both were seen to be shepherds.
Concerning your definitions...do you pray to your computer then? because a computer it not a deity, yet accordingly you worship it.
I don’t know how many times I have begged my computer to start working again when it has broken! "Please oh please oh please you f*cking piece of sh*t let me finish my paper!" Lol! But seriously, I probably should have used the term sacrifice out of respect for the fact that in your monotheistic tradition sacrifice and prayer are not synonymous, as they pretty much are in my religion. There’s this awesome line from the book American Gods (I forget the author) where the main character is visited by the television god because the television god’s trying to win him over to the side of the modern gods in the war against the gods of antiquity. The main character is shocked because he had never thought that people in the modern “Christian” era could have their own gods, and so he asks “What do they sacrifice to you?” and the tv god responds “Their time, mostly.” Then he goes on into this detailed explanation about how they do it and blah blah blah, but my point is that time is one of the most common sacrifices to any god, and it can often be the most costly to us.
I disagree with the first couple of people in your thread because I believe God is perfect. He created us in perfection and gave us free will. In turn we fell into imperfection. We chose it!! IT is OUR fault.
That would be a difference in opinion, rather than a difference in theological logic, if there’s even such a thing. And mythology . . .
Eric for instance stated that you should respect imperfect gods for the same reason you respect your parents. (However, there is a point where parents are no longer worthy of respect).
Most Reconstructionists would probably disagree with you there. They would say that your parents are always worthy of at least your respect for the simple reason that they brought you into this world. You don’t necessarily have to like your parents, or even trust them if that’s the case, but you do always have to respect them.
I think people worship imperfect gods because they cannot relate with a perfect one.
Most pagans/heathens would agree with you there, including me.
Is it not easier for the human mind to worship imperfection since it is visible here on earth?
Not necessarily. It’s not always extraordinarily comforting to worship an imperfect diety, knowing that no one is ever, or ever could, swoop down from heaven and turn your life into this magical wonderland just because you ask. I find it a lot harder to worship an imperfect being because you end up being more responsible for your own actions, as well as for actions that aren’t necessarily your “fault”.
Just as it is is easier to fathom the idea of splitting up a god into multiple deities.
I don’t know, I would think it’d be easier to just combine all the gods into one so you don’t actually have to do the work of getting to know each individual one! Polytheism is major work, and it’s not exactly some golden straight path where everyone runs around singing “Hosanna!” (literally “God save!”)
If by the end of your life you figure this and other essentials out you have neared human perfection, to an extent.
One would think that since perfection is so vast and so unreachable in our human forms it would be a lot harder to obtain. That’s like saying “Although there are an infinite number of stairs on the staircase to perfection, if you just tap the first one you’ll be magically transported to the last one (assuming that that one exists, of course *grins*)>”
Ohh in response to your thread God gave us free will. We dont have to worship him but by worshipping him we find perfection. He only wishes us good.
But if perfection=heaven=salvation=worshiping God/leading a moral life, then how can one not worship God and yet gain perfection?
The first link u provided is kind of silly. His ways border extremism. It is true God is most important but all of this is not necessary. As long as you live a good life free of desire and unnecessary distractions you're good to go. Loving God is the most powerful form of worship.
But if one TRULY loves God, then wouldn’t that person want to spend as much time as possible with God? This piety which the author is talking about (wow, I’m really bad with names today!) is such an essential part of Greek piety that it’s hard for me to comprehend why someone wouldn’t want that in their life. By doing simple little things like blessing the food, or thanking Hermes every time you find some loose change on the floor, and many other things you are taking God(s) out of the temple/church/mosque and putting Him/them into your life. Soon everything you do will be filled with such a sense of divinity that never gets old or uninteresting because it is such an essential part of your natural behavior. Soon prayers will pour out of your mouth like water flows out of the stream and into the ocean of your existence. To paraphrase the Qu’ran, you feel that God(s) is/are ACTUALLY closer than your jugular vein. You stop worrying about salvation and perfection and start worshiping for the sake of worshiping. I have only had a glimpse of this kind of piety, but it is something that I really truly want. To have that kind of closeness with the gods would be . . . I can’t even find the words to say it. If this is “extremism” then perhaps it is the normality of faith that we should worry about, rather than the extreme.
Steve brought up a good point about this. Jesus' ultimate sacrifice was his death. But where is Jesus' body? It ressurrected. The material form is unimportant. Afterall, ultimate happiness is spiritual.
But if the sacrifice was an entirely spiritual one, then why did Jesus have to go through the whole bloody, nasty process of crucifixion on the material plane? If it was really entirely spiritual then wouldn’t Jesus have just disappeared on the night of his spiritual death and his body have just vanished?
Larissa
"Down we plunge to the dungeon of my black despair
Down we plunge to the prison of my mind!
Down that path, into darkness deep as hell!"
Andrew Lloyd Weber's The Phantom of the Opera
Based on Lereaux Gaston's book Le Phantome d'Opera
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