What Happened?

Jessie, what happened?!!! Are you okay!!! You're not being literal, are you?!! Did you have an accident?!!! I'll call you when I get home, I'm at the office now copying something for my parents. I'm grounded from pretty much everything but leaving the house (which is kind of odd because leaving the house is something that parents tend to ground you from) because I "ruined" some sweaters of my sister's by washing other clothes with them, so I can't write in here for a while! Call me if I don't reach you!!! Oh wait, you're in church! Just call me!

i almost died today...still traumatized...don't wanna tlak about it.

oh and comment on larissa's blog entry. (in her blog at queenofthewierd) Did you ever think that teenagers wear this stuff out of pride? Did you ever think that maybe they created it themselves. Any person who is seriously dedicated to their faith does not join it because of a material reason. And if they do they won't seriously follow it for very long. (kinda like me with my obsession with pentacles and the mystical elements of wicca a time ago) I find it sad really, that a religion is that desperate that it has to sell merchandise to get converts. They're trying to make religion "cool", which it's not. ????? If you see it that way then your a hypocrit. Religion is something to be celebrated. How is it not? No one says "you have to go to majesty books and bibles or else"!!! Its for people who enjoy being there and share an enthusiasm in the faith.
Theres also a thing called "planting a seed". I can't criticize majesty for that.
but larissa i have to wonder. Why do you bother being so critical and against these things? You yourself more or less follow the ideals of a greek society. You share the gods of an uncivilized culture. I could say alot about that but i don't. you fail to see the positive aspects of christianity. You also put everything into words. Just like u possibly took aspects of every faith and integrated it into your own I do that too. Take it from father Richard in a convo i had with him last friday: Catholicism has guidelines not strict rules.
I guess another part of it with u is that community is not a big part of the hellenismo faith. But for us it is. Love is a necessity and we find strength in each other, in sticking together. So I guess you couldn't possibly understand that aspect.

I'm horrible at conquering myself lately. It seems I'm depressed for no reason like every other hour. Where's the peace?!! I'm trying really hard though. I think I'm just thinking about the world too much lately. Everyone's sins seem to weigh down on me or something. yea i know, but don't laugh. IT's just so hopeless. If i didn't have Ryan I might become a nun or missionary. I want nothing more then to just be able to help and love people. Devote myself to Christ. It's just so hard with the life I live right now. The stress of school and getting into college. After college i wanna move to Ireland or something. I can't raise my kids in this world of degenerizing moral. I don't even wanna think of what it will be like by the time they're my age. How could our parents and grandparents have let this happen? Why?
Yesterday someone told me there was nothing wrong with sex because everyone does it. Well I don't know what to say to that. It's a hopless battle. No matter what i could say, I'm outnumbered by people who think nothing of it. Satan is everywhere i look. Greed and desire envelope humanity like a rubber ducky in quicksand. We've dug ourselves in such a hole that we've forgotten truth, (whatever that may be). The real pleasures of life are overlooked for desirous self-diminishing ones. I don't mean to sound so extreme its just that it's an extreme issue if u see truth. And thats the thing, most people don't see it so they look at me like i'm psycho. But thats what satan has done to us. Hes brought us to a point where nothing matters. No one has their own identity anymore. If only people could feel the love of God. They'd never turn away again. He's sacrificed so much for us. It hurts me to see so many people openly reject him. There's good people too, but not nearly enough. "He who does not love does not know God; for God is love" (1 Jn 4:8).

lol no ask ryan about ap classes. they're easy!! don't kid yourself. Teachers know u wont wanna do work senior year. They're always harder on freshman and sophomores. lol that job sounds cool.

Perfect Job

Jess, I found the perfect job for you! Apparrantly the government hires out kids around our age who look older to go out and try to buy beer and cigarrettes so they can nab all those stores who don't card! I heard about it and I just thought of you *grins*! You should check it out!

AP classes aren't hard?

????? AP classes aren't hard??? AP Bio is going to be hell. 12 page labs!!! Hammer's labs are 3-4 at the most, and that's if you have really big handwriting! AP English doesn't sound too bad, but it's still an AP course. And Nevins . . . don't get me started on Nevins. I would rather take Law, Economics, and American Studies all at the SAME TIME with Ward rather than take AP Euro with Nevins for one semester. At least with Ward you'd know what you were being tested on. What EXACTLY she expected on your essays. Sure it was a shitload of work, but as far as school goes I'd rather be burned by too much sun (Ward) than have it gone all together (Nevins). Nevins gives impossible projects that no one ever completely does. You never have the slightest clue what's on his tests, it could be a huge essay on the medieval mind, it could be all multiple choice, or it could be a complete pit of utter doom with multiple choice, chronology, a mini-essay, matching, and a bunch of fill-in-the-blanks. Nevins' classes are all one big guessing game and guess what?! I can't gamble!!!! I really should drop AP Euro . . . I really should . . . but I can't unless I suddenly decide I want to major in something I'll more than likely either A). suck at or B). hate with a fiery passion.

What was I talking about again? Oh yes, AP classes are hard. You're classes are fine, Mrs. Ward's nice and you can easily get her off topic. Lauren B. says you don't really learn anything in Economics, but at least you know what to expect. You're Senior year's fine, not too easy, and not too hard. You were smart.

History is interesting when you're talking about a smaller scale. The problem with High School courses is that they give a very general overview of the events going on, and we don't get into much detail. Many of the kinds of things I find interesting involve a lot of History, and I love it, but I still hate my History classes at East. When you actually get to learn more about people, who they are, why they're in the situations they're in, and how they handle and respond to the situations around them History can be fascinating. That's why Herodotus was such an awesome historian who inspired thousands of people after him to look at history in a new way, not because he got the names people and dates of events precisely right, but because he made it into a group of stories about individuals rather than countries. *sighs* Too bad we couldn't just do that in high school.

But i do want to deal with all that crap. I want it more then anything...the kids in my classes are so dumb!! AP classes arn't hard. you'll be fine next year...
I've just discovered why i don't like history. there's nothing artsy and creative about it. And unlike math there's nothing to really reveal. It's all boring memorization of facts. And Ward teaches economics. So i have to suffer thru a level 1 class that is probably actually harder then nevins level 0. Thats what sucks so much. I don't care so much that i'm not taking AP bio because i like the math aspect of physics. But I'm still never gonna forgive the school for making me take spanish sophomore year. I already talked to pumerantz about it and she said if i'm assigned mack again she'll let me take it out of my schedule. SO i better get mcconville. but shh no one is suppose to kno she's letting me do that. It's a privilage. i'm gonna have no life next year tho cuz i have to work so hard to bring my GPA up. i hate myself so much for being depressed last year. i don't know why but it's just really hit me lately...

You're Classes Don't Suck

You're classes don't suck, they're actually quite good. You don't want to have to deal with all the crap I'm going to deal with next year anywho. It would be awesome if you could get into AP English. You're probably not going to want to though, because you'll be the new kid (everyone else will have been in Humanities and American Studies together), and some of the kids in my class are a bit stuck up. Some are nice though . . . and some, like Dan Luczc, just need professional help. You're courses are good though, not too hard, not too easy. I went over the top!!! I am so screwed for next year . . .

We had scheduling the other day and since everyone's doing it, i'll list my pitiful classes as well...
Digital photography
Sculpture
honors economics
honors physics
Spanish
trig but hopefully i'll get that switched to level 1 precal- i'm like 4 points from a 95 average
Christian leadership
and maybe ap english
yea all my classes suck. I screwed myself over freshman and sophomore year. No matter how much work i did this year it wouldn't have mattered. It wasn't enough to get into seminar. :-( and still don't kno if i got into peer ministry...
and i have to study like a maniac to ace the sats or i'll have no chance at uconn.

I'm so freaken restless and not sure why. I guess i'm having ryan withdrawls. Having not seen him in a whole day and all!! :-P
I've been trying to read the Picure of Dorian Gray for this scholarship contest. It's wicked easy. all u have to do is write an essay and the book is really good too so that's a plus. I love when Henry talks because he always reveals some deep thought about human nature.
*yawns* but neway I've finally come to the conclusion that nurse practitioners and most doctors are near useless. They think they can be God and give u drugs to solve EVERYTHING!! Then they give u stuff that screws up your hormones and as a result screws up your life. And usually you already know everything they tell you so what's the point in even going?
I'm not really as pessimistic as I sound. I just have a need to rant. and i just woke up from a nap so that's part of it. Everytime I take a nap i feel as though I've wasted time and get depressed about it. it's never ending really...

My New Blog

So that Jess won't have to put up with me anymore, I have my own blog now. It's at www.queenoftheweird.blogspot.com! Come check it out if you care!

The Army Place?

Lol, this is so funny because the church is probably 30-40 miles away from the army place! They're not even in the same town! Of course, no one thought to call little old me, because I could have told them that it's right down the street from Rein's Deli and made everyone's life so much easier. Or I could have told them it's right down the street from my house too, but it's okay, life goes on. Nelle was AWESOME Sunday night. And her mother was the cutest thing. I sat next to her during the play, and every time Nelle was singing a solo she would nudge me and point and go "Look look look!" She was so proud. It was touching. And Nelle had this awesome part where she sang "Generations!" and she hit this awesome note! I was in awe! I was very proud. Nelle, you're my hero and I'm sorry that the flower I gave you wilted! Who'd have thought that flowers wilt indoors?

*sighs* You know, everyone is always telling me how weird I am. I guess it must be true, but I really don't see how I'm any weirder than anyone else. So what if I like Opera, and reading books written hundreds of years ago? And so what if I can't lie to nice people (my parents are another story)? And so what if I laugh at dumb things that don't make any sense, and so what if I say weird things that no one else does? . . . Oh. Yeah. I am weirder than everyone else. But that's okay, I still have self esteem . . . somewhere . . .

Jess, we're having an interesting conversation at the Hellenismos Board at Beliefnet that you might like. It's on Plato's Euthyphro dilemna. The whole "is good good because the gods love it, or do the gods love it because it is good" thing. We're commenting on some articles on the subject written by monotheists, so there certainly is room for a monotheistic response. Here's the site:

Euthyphro Dilemna

Where was I?! Well, I was driving around vernon looking for this play that my friend is supposed to be in. And we drove past the army place! Then! We drove to the right of it, and to the left of it, but nowhere could we find that little church!!! So finally we gave up and just ate at Panda Palace. And it really sucks because I can't go see it today. I'm sorry. But hun you can't go through life not knoing where you are. What did you mean by near the army place? Cuz we searched everywhere! And when I called u for directions yesterday I couldn't call back because I was at work. so please learn how to give directions. It's ok now I know never to trust you when it comes to direction. :-P

where the hell were you last night?

Logic

Yes, I agree with you. Sometimes you do need to put your emotions aside and just think logically. I was disagreeing with those philosophers who believed in giving up emotions entirely, which I do not think is best, at least for me. I would hate never being able to be in a euphoric state of glee, or cry until I can cry no more. Balance in emotion, balance in logic, "Everything in moderation", that's my motto. But even moderation has it's moderation! Lol.

I don't think suicide is beautiful in the way many people commonly use the term beautiful. "You look so beautiful tonight," or "The garden is so beautiful." It's more beautiful in the kind of beauty that is tragic. Tragic beauty, you could say. It's so sad and it brings up such an emotion in you that it is beautiful in it's own way. And also it's more of the way that Werther describes it that is beautiful. Perhaps I can find the passage where Werther yells at Albert for condemning suicide . . . *searches through book* . . . let's see, where was it? Ah, it was when Werther picks up Albert's unloaded gun (yes, he knows it's unloaded) and puts it to his head. Here it is!!

"'Shame on you!' Albert said, as he forced my hand down. 'What on earth is the meaning of this?'

'It isn't loaded.' I said.

'Even so . . . what was going on in your mind?' He sounded impatient. 'I simply cannot imagine how a man could be so foolish as to shoot himself. The very idea disgusts me.'

'Oh you people,' I cried, 'who, when you talk about anything must immediately declare: that is foolish, that is clever, that is good, that is bad! And what does it all amount to? Do you think you can uncover the vital circumstances of an action with your questions? Are you sure you know how to get at the heart of the matter: why did it happen? Why did it have to happen? If you were, you wouldn't be so hasty with your decisions.'

'You will grant me, I am sure,' Albert said, 'that certain actions are vicious whatever the reason may be.'

I shrugged and had to agree with him. 'And yet, my dear fellow,' I went on, 'here too you will find your exceptions. To steal is a sin, true, but the poor man who steals to save himself and his dear ones from starvation, what does he deserve? Pity or punishment? Who will cast the fist stone against the married man who, in his first fury, murders his faithless wife and her vile seducer? And what about the young girl who in a blissful hour loses herself in the irresistible delights of love? Even our laws, cold-blooded and pedantic as they are, can be moved to withhold punishment.'

'That is something quite different,' said Albert. 'A man who lets himself be overwhelmed by passion can be considered out of his mind, and is treated like a drunkard or a madman.'

'Oh you sensible people!' I cried, but I was smiling. 'Passion. Inebriation. Madness. You respectable ones stand there so calmly, without any sense of participation. Upbraid the drunkard, abhor the madman, pass them by like the priest and thank God like the Pharisees that He did not make you as one of these! I have been drunk more than once, and my passion often borders on madness, and I regret neither. Because, in my own way, I have learned to understand that all exceptional people who created something great, something that seemed impossible, have to be decried as drunkards or madmen. And I find it intolerable even in our daily life, to hear it said of almost everyone who manages to do something that is free, noble and unexpected: He is a drunkard, he is a fool. They should be ashamed of themselves, all these sober people! And the wise ones!'

'Now you are being fanciful again,' Albert said. 'You always exaggerate, and you are certainly wrong when you classify suicide - and suicide is what we are talking about - as any sort of great achievement, since it can be defined only as a sign of weakness. For it is certainly easier to die than to stand up to a life of torment.'

I was about to break off the conversation, for nothing can so completely disconcert me as when a man presents me, who am talking from my heart, with an insignificant platitude. But I controlled myself because I had heard the same thing so often and let it vex me. Instead I said, with quite some vehemence, 'You call it weakness? I beg of you, don't let yourself be mislead by appearances. Would you call a nation groaning under the unbearable yoke of a tyrant weak if it revolts and breaks its chains? Or the man who, in his horror because his house is afire, musters sufficient strength to carry off burdens which he could scarcely have budged when he was calm? Or the man who, enraged by insults, takes on six men and overpowers them? Would you call this man weak? And if exertion is strength, why should exaggeration be the opposite?'" pgs. 59 - 61 Signet Classic Edition of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther

I'll continue this another time, but Werther goes on to give several examples of suicides that he has heard of, and explains why committing suicide was not necessarily wrong in these cases. He sees that Albert doesn't understand, so he finally ends the conversation and goes home.

(twitches) SOrry I just cant read this stuff

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/descendit.htm

Well emotion is a wonderful gift from God, but it can also be quite annoying.
It's what sets us apart from animals. In a deeper sense at least. I believe animals have emotions but not to the extent of humans. But you definitely can't live your life using only logic. You'd be like a robot. But when your philosophyzing I think you have to exclude emotions to the point where, they're still there and your aware of them, but don't base your ideas upon them. You know? There are certain emotions that you should emphasize and others that are only deleterious to your character and well being. You can't just catagorize them all into one glutinous blob. lol i love saying that. ONE GLUTINOUS BLOB!!! ok ok i'm good. :-P Of course you must experience before you know which are which.
What do you mean by Werther's insights into suicide? I can't see how suicide could ever be beautiful. I can see all the emotion involved during certain mindsets and how that might be beautiful, but otherwise I can't see it.
Oh and then there's people like my mom who use almost no logic and rely on emotions. Thats a horrible way to go. I just spent like an hour on the phone with her trying to show her why its the wrong way to handle things. I dunno maybe some other day when I'm more organized...
Aunt g and aunt erin just got back from their week long vacation in Ireland!! :-) yay!!
I talked to Katherine today. It felt really good. Yea Katherine is my sister. I don't talk about her much cuz she'd usually just annoy me, but today i decided to change that. She's 9 and going into 5th grade soon so she really needs some guidance, especially spiritually and I think I'm really the only one in her life right now that can provide that. The only one who knows what shes going and can separate logic from emotion enough to help her out. We had a really good talk and she seems to really look up to me and take my advice well. I think we'll be good friends some day, and thats something I NEVER forsaw myself saying. I feel refreshed having conquered that area of my life..:-)
lol I could have sworn it was phantom of the opera. your quotes are always from that.
I'm in such a loving mood lately...To all my friends: I love you guys!!!! and anyone else who needs love: I love you too!!

I don't know what to put down here anymore

I finished reading your quotes, and it was quite interesting because I was just thinking about logic on the way home. I realized that my inherent objection to most philosophers is not necessarily about their proposals or even their love of logic and discovery. I, as a curious human being, can certainly identify with their cause. I realized that it is their emphasis on logic to the exclusion of emotions which bothered me. I found myself thinking of Goethe's Werther, who is the main character in his short story/novel The Sorrows of Young Werther. For those of you who have not read the book (which I'm assuming is everyone I've ever come in contact with), it's basically about a German man who goes by the name of Werther. He's a naturally emotional person who has a deep love of life until he falls in love with this perfect woman named Charlotte who is engaged. She gets married to I believe the man's name is Albert, and Werther becomes both of their best friends. They have fun together, and they all genuinely care about each other, but Werther loves Charlotte so much that he's pretty much obsessed with her. At first it doesn't bother him too much that his relationship with Charlotte can never be more than that of a friend, but after a while it starts bothering him. Slowly he slips into this depressive state and all of his life is centered around her, and when she is not near him he cannot be happy. Eventually he realizes that this is bad for himself, Charlotte, and Albert, so he leaves to take this job which he hates. He is utterly miserable, and everything he once loved about life has dissappeared. He finally goes back to Charlotte, but finds that he is still miserable and starts to become jealous of Albert to the point where it is destroying him. Charlotte realizes this too, and she tries to push him away, which actually only adds on to his misery. Finally, he realizes he cannot go on living like this, so he borrows Albert's guns on the premise that he is going off on a journey and needs them for protection. He then kills himself after having written this beautiful letter to Charlotte proffessing his unending love for her. It is the saddest and most profound book I have ever read, and Werther's insights into suicide are so deep and so moving that one cannot help but wonder why one does not just kill oneself and end this wretched life of ours. Actually, many people did. The book caused mass suicides to the extent where it was banned in several countries. It was the work that has the most affect on me not because it was about logic, but because it was about emotions. When Werther finally away from Charlotte to work under the Count, he became friends with a Prince. In his letter to his friend William (since the book is set up not as a narrative, but as a collection of Werther's letters and journal entries), he describes his relationship with the Prince.

"Another thing I regret is that he speaks often of things he has only heard or read about, and then from the other person's point of view, and he seems to value my mind and my various talents more that this heart of mine, of which I am so proud, for it is the source of all things - all strength, all bliss, all misery. The things I know, every man can know, but, oh, my heart is mine alone!" pg. 85 Signet Classic Edition

One cannot underestimate the value of one's emotions, for although they can lead to one's destruction, they will bring you to such heights that logic alone cannot. As a result, I feel that the most truly successful person must be both emotional and logical, a lover and a scholar. To say that abstinence alone can gain you a true perspective of the world is, in my opinion, a foolish statement, because how can one gain full knowledge of what one has not experienced, or what one has rejected? Remember, Jesus had to journey into hell before he could be ressurrected, the ressurrection didn't occur because he kept his robe nice and clean. I can't recall any other myths which would back up this statement, but I'm sure, as is usually the case, I'll think of some a month from now, lol!

If anyone wants to read about Werther, the author is Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. After you read it seriously don't lock yourself up, you'll only spend the time tearing yourself apart.

Larissa

" . . . it does not make me shudder to grasp the cold and terrible cup from which I shall drink the transport of death. You hand it to me, and I do not hesitate. All! All of it! Thus the wishes and hopes I had of life are fulfilled . . . to knock so coldly, so rigidly, on the brazen gates of death." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (not Phantom of the Opera!!!!!!!!)

Response to Larissa about pms and such...

lol that was quite interesting larissa, I enjoyed it. Had one of those self pity days where everything just goes wrong huh? I really hate those. I have them quite often lately.
It's odd though because I've never been one of those moody pmsy type women, but just recently I've become plagued by it. I don't know what it is, but it's really driving me crazy. I'm tired of letting emotion get in the way when I know how things really are. Emotions like anger and frustration are ephemeral so its stupid to let them interfere.

oh and your quote was by Frank Sinatra right? lol j/k it was phantom of the opera.

Hey

Definately too lazy to read your response, I'm not in a very philosophical mood. I'm in an odd sort of mood really. While you were taking a "mental day" (aka the "I'm-too-lazy-to-get out of bed day, lol!) I was in school *gags self*.

Oh, by the way, many thanks to the people in charge of our musical! I mean, the advanced notice on the fact that we had a 5 hour rehersal after school was appreciated very much! I mean a whole 6 hours' notice! How generous! It gave me so much time to get out of work and rearrange my schedule (which mostly included sleeping and reading, but still!)! Oh, and that "What Would the Simple Folk Do?" song, SUPERB!! I mean, what horrible excuse for a human being does not love an annoying song that has no purpose in the musical's plot? Show your face, you scurrulous knave, and I shall kill thee with my own sword! After I buy one, of course!

On a serious note, Camelot's coming along quite badly. The pit band is out of tune, the stage crew is filled with lazy asses, and the coreography hasn't even been started yet. As such, I have to go to two more 5 hour rehearsals this week! Grrrrr, life is pissing me off!

I wasn't in this mood before, I suddenly came into it on my way home. I was singing to the Phantom of the Opera much louder than usual (go ahead and laugh at my geekiness, I don't mind), and it all of a sudden I became in this mood. So I walk in the house to find it empty without even a note left telling me where everyone went. This normally wouldn't piss me off, but my parents do it all the time! I'll walk down in the morning, and no one will be home, and I'll be sitting there saying good morning to myself like a total freak of nature. And they'll also make me baby-sit at a moment's notice, despite the fact that they've known about these events for weeks. They assume I have no life (which I don't, but they still shouldn't assume it!), so they don't even give me the courtesy of telling asking me when I'll have to do this! And they don't even pay me, which I think they should. I AM doing them the favor!!!! Any ways, back to what I was talking about, I walk up to the counter and find my stacks of information packets from random shitty dumb-colleges which no one's heard of on the counter, so I glance through it, hoping by some miracle one of the colleges that I actually want to go to is in there. As usual, it is not. So I suddenly come upon this brochure for Nazareth College, and I say to myself:

"Oh look, Nazareth college! Sounds like I'll get a sound Christian education there!"

*Sound of ripping in background*

"Whoopsies! How clumsy of me, I seem to have ripped the packet! Good thing it's only in half, because now I can still read it! I wouldn't want to miss out on listening to professors profess [pun intended] the word of God!"

*trashcan opens and closes*

"Oh sweet gods! I've accidentally thrown it in the garbage! I'm such a clumsy oaf! Oh well, since it's covered in crap, I can't read it any more. Gosh darn, and I really wanted to go there too! Oh well!"

I was very amused with myself, as I often am. That's why I laugh at random moments, because I find myself so hillarious. It's my mind's mechanism of trying to turn me into a friend instead of an enemy. It's not working, I still hate myself at times. Okay, I still hate myself a lot. But hopefully that will change once I find some more things to like about myself.

Enough about me . . . Jess, that's good that you liked the Passion! I can kind of see it's appeal, seeing as suffering is an important part of most religions. I've got the whole Demeter-Kore-Persephone deal in my religion, the Jews have the whole "we're the scape-goat for the world" thing going on, Shi'ite Muslims have whole festivals where people scream and cry and think about suffering all day long, so it's a pretty universal idea about religion. Personally, since it has no religious significance for me, I'd rather not spend two hours watching a man get tortured. It doesn't float my boat.

I can't find a way to respond to the arrogant comment without turning into a total bitch, which I am, but I don't want to sound like one. It's the whole personal pride thing that occasionally shows up in me, when I'm not too busy thinking I'm total scum.

Wow, I write a lot, lol. I don't know why, it comes out so naturally!

Larissa

Life's a "Masquerade, paper faces on parade! Masquerade, hide your face so the world will never find you! Masquerade, every face a different shape! Masquerade, look around there's another mask behind you!"

Take a wild guess what this is from

good stuff i found while doing my religion project...

"Truth is the object of search among the principles of finding and gaining new knowledge about the existence of ourselves. Without the gained knowledge, we are but in darkness, unlearned, uncaring and an unimportant animal of creation. However, when mankind is stimulated to even investigate the simplest of items, radiant brilliance of truth of science, religion, knowledge of all things are opened to his understanding. The complex patterns of the intellect, the mind in its functioning capacity, has the ability to comprehend both concrete and abstract thought patterns. Animals think in only terms of concrete visible patterns, while the whole of humanity has both the concrete and abstract thought patterns of tangible physical things as well as the unseen comprehension of intangible thoughts.
To be able to achieve the collected findings of investigated truth, we first must clear our thoughts of traditional concepts unsubstantiated by proofs. Secondly, we have to arise above the prejudices of cultural superstition and small insignificant and trivial notions. Possessing an open receptive mind is essential for positive and untarnished investigation. If we allow our thoughts to prematurely establish our concepts, that we are the only one right and everyone else can only be wrong, we then set before our investigation an obstacle to great to over come. Truth is of one source, foundation and origin. To achieve to the pathway of truth, we must be in unity, which is essential if we are to find the awaiting truth.

Truth is one, of one accord, and can not contradict another truth, for being of the same origin, truth is always of the same radiant vibration. A rose is beautiful and the same, no matter which garden it may bloom in. A star, shining forth constantly in the same radiance, whether from the East or Western horizon, is the same, never is its light opposed to the nature of its reality. In like manner, truth is of one nature and accord, no matter where it is found, or where it may achieve a radiant attraction to any individual.

We must find ourselves willing to clear away all that we have previously learned. Preventing traditional obstacles to clog our steps on the way to truth. We must not allow our love for any one religion or any one personality to blind our eyes and to cloud our thoughts, or we would become fettered by mere superstitions. When we become freed from all these bonds and begin seeking with liberated minds, then shall we be able to arrive at our goal, the radiant light of truth .


" God Himself does not compel the soul to become spiritual. The exercise of the free human will is necessary."

'Bahá'u'lláh'


The investigation of truth is not binding upon mankind, rather, it is of a free will of the individual to pursue. For each individual should see and realize for himself the necessary truth manifested in the human temple. God has gifted mankind with the purest gift, the intellect. With such a tool, mankind may discover the realities of his existence, the essence of his creation, its purpose and meaning. The Prophets called onto mankind to open their eyes, not shut them, to use their reason and not to suppress it. "It is clear seeing and free thinking, not servile credulity, that will enable them to penetrate the clouds of prejudice, to shake off the fetters of blind imitation, and attain to the realization of the truth of a new Revelation." Mankind should become use to using all the faculties God has so gloriously given to humanity for the acquisition of truth.

It is essential that individuals should become capable of discerning the true from the false, right from wrong, and of seeing things in their true proportions. Be weary of sayings and purposed truths without valid proofs and sufficient evidence to their credibility. If a heart of the seeker is pure, and their mind is free and escapes the worldly prejudices, the true and earnest seeker will not fail to recognize the divine glory in what ever temple it may become manifested.


"O ye sons of intelligence! The thin eyelid prevents the eye from seeing the world and what is contained therein. Then think of the result when the curtain of greed over the sight of the heart!

O people! The darkness of greed and envy obscures the light of the soul as the cloud prevents the penetration of the sun's rays."

'Bahá'u'lláh'


The use of the intellect is the fundamental tool and foundation to search after truth and knowledge. A pure heart and free will to search, to investigate, is the very foundation of a independent Search for Truth. Let it swell in the hearts of all mankind. Once truth is found, then unity can be achieved in its total essence."

ohh I forgot to tell you.. I saw The Passion. It was awesome. Couldn't have been depicted better. Everyone should definately go see it. Of course if your not Christian or you don't have the seeds planted, it probably won't mean much to you. But for true Catholics it'll mean alot. I just can't understand the people who won't go see it. It's not that violent really. It's just how it was. And there's alot of good symbolism inculcated. Go forth with an open mind...

Not quite sure how u find time to write everything you write, Larissa. But you might want to tone it down a little. You're sounding quite arrogant...:-) gotta go now...I'll try to write back within the next week. Yet again your missing my points. Details are unimportant. Kinda overwhelmed with everything i have to do right now....:-/ zillions of projects and essays flood me!!

still too lazy to read

Response to Jess' Many Responses

No dionysos and Jesus are definately much different. They stand for completely different things. one brings peace and the other a downward spiral of desire.

I’m not explaining this properly, I’m afraid. The fact that I’m Apollonian in thought and action makes it hard for me to fully explain the concepts behind the Dionysian mysteries. Apollon and Dionysos don’t like each other, never have, and probably never will. Apollon teaches “Everything in Moderation” (including time spent with people who have magnets in their noses and purr like kitty-cats when you scratch their chins! You know what I’m talking about *grins*!), while Dionysos teaches that there is moderation in moderation. It’s not a thing which one engages in every day all the time, because it’s not indulgence if you’re doing the same actions over and over again every day and all day. It’s one of those “finding oneself” types of things that one does once every couple of months.

I can't see where Dionysos would get with his code though. Only because from my experience, indulgence is never good. Maybe if he means indulging and then being better off later for having experienced it...or that indulgence opens u up to knoing your other side.

For someone who is so against indulgence, you seem to spend a lot of time indulging your passions for certain things and/or people! For example, I seem to remember the two of us practically orgasming over this extra-yummy pudding the other day (d*mn that pudding was good!)! Perhaps if you spent less time indulging yourself and more time reading the book which I lent you last September you would be able to understand the philosophies of others better *grins especially wide*.

The main beliefs of Jesus on the other hand, are quite peaceful and however ideal, would lead to a perfect state.

His actions and words, however, are much to be desired. Tearing up temples? Making a woman walk miles behind him so that she could be healed all because she wasn’t a Jew? Sounds like your average Joe to me. And the perfect state cannot exist (as Ryan could probably tell you through his discussions about utopianism last year during Mrs. LaFontana’s class!), so “would” is the wrong term to use.

But do you ever really believe that begging your computer to work will actually result in it working?

I was joking, lol! Although I must at least unconsciously believe it, otherwise why would I persist on saying it?

Time is sacrificial you're right. But lets say you volunteer your time at a homeless shelter...Do you worship the shelter or people involved? I think you really just want to do a good deed and help others, not worship them.

If I devoted a considerable amount of my mind body and soul to the cause then yes, I would indeed be worshiping it.

why is a god special to you if anyone or anyhting can be a god? What's the point?

Why do you prefer Fettuccine Alfredo (gods all these references to yummy foods are making me salivate!) when there are so many other pastas out there, and when there are people like KT, for example, who most likely hate it? Why doesn’t everyone just decide to eat one kind of pasta, the “ideal pasta”, and then never think about the other kinds of pastas again out of respect for the “ideal pasta”? It’s because human beings naturally feel attracted to certain things for often inexplicable reasons. Also there is a general consensus in the pagan/heathen community that the gods kind of choose you as well. A “This kid seems nice, I should hang out with her!” type of thing, to put it simply.

Ok so a parent who raped their child and left them to die is worthy of respect? I'm sorry but i could never respect that... I would still love and forgive them, but i couldn't respect them...

As a person this parent frankly shouldn’t be respected. However, the child still has a duty to respect his/her parents, an action I’m assuming your probably equating with the whole love and forgiveness thing. And I believe that there’s some Biblical code which goes something like “Honor thy father and thy mother . . .”

Reconstructionists believe this but what about you? You always say what other people and groups believe. Never yourself...

That is because my opinions are always open to change, and such things don’t form the basis of a good logical and scholarly conversation. However, you are right, and I will make an attempt to explain my views more clearly in the future.

But perfection is like a staircase. It's just that no one chooses to follow it.

On the contrary, I think a lot of people start to climb it. But since one cannot possibly ever climb an infinite number of stairs, no matter how many “lives” one may get, no one has ever reached the end. Goethe’s Faust touches more upon this subject. No matter how far and wide Faust travels, no matter how long he lives, he cannot reach ideal which he seeks.

AND i said:We dont have to worship him but by worshipping him we find perfection. He only wishes us good.
Worshipping god leads to perfection but so would following "good", freeing yourself from desire, and loving all.

I’m not sure which comment of mine this is a response to, could you please explain?

Oh i definately want God in my life, but it's what he teaches that is important. What is the point in worshipping if it just comes out of you like a habit?

Am I really this bad at explaining things, because you don’t seem to be understanding a lot of the points I’m trying to make. Yeah, seeing as you’re not stupid it definitely must be me. Okay, I’ll try again. It’s more than habit, it’s . . . the only word I can think of is behavior. One could easily argue that laughter is a habit, yawning a habit, and crying easily a habit. But do we tell ourselves “Self, you lovely creature you, I am going to laugh for an hour each Sunday, occasionally think about laughing every day the rest of the week, and in the meantime cry for 15 minutes right before I go to bed.” No, these “mannerisms” come out voluntarily and spontaneously, and they are such a part of your life that it’s hard to go one without laughing or crying or feeling. Does laughing grow tired? Does laughing interfere with life? Is it pointless to laugh and feel that kind of joy because it is a mere “habit”?

God should always be a part of your life in every aspect but by loving others, freeing yourself form desire and ego, and workign towards salvation, you are constantly worshipping God. These goals encompass the entity of your life.

This is certainly an aspect of the kind of piety that I and the author of the article are describing, but it’s moving beyond your actions and into your mind and soul.

Praying is important but your actions in life are further important. They are a form of prayer. If someone prayed every other hour yet they lied and stole then what would be the point in praying?

You’re still thinking of prayer as a halting of life, which certain forms of prayer can be. But this kind of prayer is different. You don’t need to halt your life, your being is your prayer. It’s far easier to resist, for example, strangling both John Levoy and Dan Lusczc (Luzzie) when they mock you during Religion class when you are constantly aware of the spiritual forces around you.

Hopefully of course, praying as much as they do would bring them to a more holy state and help them to stop lieing/stealing.

Lol, what I said above before I read this part :)!

lol that's a funny question.

Careful Jess, your sneaking in on the “stupid questions” turf! Lol!

Jesus didn't have to go through the physical crucifixion. We put him through it with our lack of faith. Would a so called "spiritual death" convince the ignorant human race of his presence? He had to become human and suffer a human death in order for the human mind to comprehend. But Jesus ressurection confirms that his physical form is unimportant.

But if God, being the omniscient deity that He is, knew from the beginning, before mankind was even created (for simplicity’s sake I’m using more Biblical terms) that we would be screw-ups, wouldn’t it have always been necessary for Jesus to be crucified? God, before the arrival of Jesus, seemed to have existed only on the spiritual plane, and yet people were aware of His presence. And the resurrection, which seems to have taken place entirely on the spiritual plane, seems to be understandable enough for the modern Christian.


Larissa

Night-time sharpens,
Heightens each sensation . . .
Darkness stirs and
Wakes imagination . . .
Silently the senses
Abandon their defenses . . .

Slowly, gently,
Night unfurls it’s splendor . . .
Grasp it, sense it -
Tremulous and tender . . .
Turn your face away
From the garish light of day
Turn your thoughts away
From cold unfeeling Light . . .
And listen to
The music of the Night . . .

Close your eyes
And surrender to your darkest dreams!
Purge your thoughts
Of the life
You knew before!
Close your eyes,
Let your spirit
Start to soar!
And you’ll live
As you’ve never lived before . . .

Softly, deftly,
Music shall surround you . . .
Feel it, hear it,
Closing in around you . . .
Open up your mind
Let your fantasies unwind,
In this darkness which
You know you cannot fight -
The darkness o f
The music of the Night . . .

Let your mind
Start a journey through a
Strange, new world!
Leave all thoughts
Of the world you knew before!
Let your soul
Take you where you
Long to be!
Only then
Can you belong
To me . .

Floating, falling,
Sweet intoxication!
Touch me, trust me,
Savour each sensation!
Let the dream begin,
Let your darker side give in
To the power of
The music that I write -
The power of the music of the Night . . .

You alone can make my song take flight.
Help me make the music of the Night . . .

The Phantom of the Opera

An example of the ideas behind the Dionysian mysteries. Perhaps Andrew Lloyd Weber can explain it better than I can!

I have to admit, I'm tired of playing with words. lol
No dionysos and Jesus are definately much different. They stand for completely different things. one brings peace and the other a downward spiral of desire. I can't see where Dionysos would get with his code though. Only because from my experience, indulgence is never good. Maybe if he means indulging and then being better off later for having experienced it...or that indulgence opens u up to knoing your other side.
The main beliefs of Jesus on the other hand, are quite peaceful and however ideal, would lead to a perfect state.
I don?t know how many times I have begged my computer to start working again when it has broken! "Please oh please oh please you f*cking piece of sh*t let me finish my paper!"
But do you ever really believe that begging your computer to work will actually result in it working?
Time is sacrificial you're right. But lets say you volunteer your time at a homeless shelter...Do you worship the shelter or people involved? I think you really just want to do a good deed and help others, not worship them.
why is a god special to you if anyone or anyhting can be a god? What's the point?

Ok so a parent who raped their child and left them to die is worthy of respect? I'm sorry but i could never respect that... I would still love and forgive them, but i couldn't respect them...
Reconstructionists believe this but what about you? You always say what other people and groups believe. Never yourself...
Not necessarily. It?s not always extraordinarily comforting to worship an imperfect diety, knowing that no one is ever, or ever could, swoop down from heaven and turn your life into this magical wonderland just because you ask. I find it a lot harder to worship an imperfect being because you end up being more responsible for your own actions, as well as for actions that aren?t necessarily your ?fault?.
What i mean is it's easier to worship something that you know exists. It takes a small amount of faith in comparison...

But perfection is like a staircase. It's just that no one chooses to follow it.
AND i said:We dont have to worship him but by worshipping him we find perfection. He only wishes us good.
Worshipping god leads to perfection but so would following "good", freeing yourself from desire, and loving all.

Oh i definately want God in my life, but it's what he teaches that is important. What is the point in worshipping if it just comes out of you like a habit?
God should always be a part of your life in every aspect but by loving others, freeing yourself form desire and ego, and workign towards salvation, you are constantly worshipping God. These goals encompass the entity of your life.
Praying is important but your actions in life are further important. They are a form of prayer. If someone prayed every other hour yet they lied and stole then what would be the point in praying?
Hopefully of course, praying as much as they do would bring them to a more holy state and help them to stop lieing/stealing.


But if the sacrifice was an entirely spiritual one, then why did Jesus have to go through the whole bloody, nasty process of crucifixion on the material plane? If it was really entirely spiritual then wouldn?t Jesus have just disappeared on the night of his spiritual death and his body have just vanished? lol that's a funny question.
Jesus didn't have to go through the physical crucifixion. We put him through it with our lack of faith. Would a so called "spiritual death" convince the ignorant human race of his presence? He had to become human and suffer a human death in order for the human mind to comprehend. But Jesus ressurection confirms that his physical form is unimportant. His spirit is what lives on. Material things seem good on earth, but they don't prepare you for perfection.

Response to Jess' many Responses

The Hermes thing did not offend us, it just seemed rather silly that you were blaming your actions on something other then yourself. But, i suppose i can understand because, i've moments where i know the devil is trying to take control of me. But that does not mean i blame him because i have free will.

I am fully aware that I am responsible for my own actions. All throughout mythology there have been cases where people who were even taken over entirely by dieties were still held accountable for their own actions. Just because Hermes inspired my state of mind doesn’t mean that I am any less to blame for my actions.

Ryan read this before me and pointed out that, Dionysos unlike Jesus had a bunch of naked sex craved girls chasing after him. I dunno if that means anything.

True, the actual moral and philosophical teachings of Jesus and Dionysos are almost on the opposite end of the spectrum. Jesus teaches personal salvation (or in Hellenic terms a greater understanding of yourself, the gods, and the world around you) through abstinence and adherence to a set of strict moral guidelines. Dionysos, on the other hand, teaches that you can have a greater understanding of yourself through indulgence. Only when all your desires have been satisfied (and therefore disappear) can see your true nature. If I had to make any comparison between Jesus I would say that Jesus is an interesting mix between Dionysos and Apollon. Jesus’ more mystical half is Dionysos. Both are wine gods which have been put on a wooden cross (for Dionysos it was the ship masts which intersect in the shape of the cross), resurrected (although for Dionysos this happened before the whole cross thing), and have saved their faithful followers. Jesus’ more didactic side, however, more resembles Apollon. Both Jesus and Apollon were seen to be showing humanity the will of their respective fathers, and both taught a high moral code. Oh, and both were seen to be shepherds.

Concerning your definitions...do you pray to your computer then? because a computer it not a deity, yet accordingly you worship it.

I don’t know how many times I have begged my computer to start working again when it has broken! "Please oh please oh please you f*cking piece of sh*t let me finish my paper!" Lol! But seriously, I probably should have used the term sacrifice out of respect for the fact that in your monotheistic tradition sacrifice and prayer are not synonymous, as they pretty much are in my religion. There’s this awesome line from the book American Gods (I forget the author) where the main character is visited by the television god because the television god’s trying to win him over to the side of the modern gods in the war against the gods of antiquity. The main character is shocked because he had never thought that people in the modern “Christian” era could have their own gods, and so he asks “What do they sacrifice to you?” and the tv god responds “Their time, mostly.” Then he goes on into this detailed explanation about how they do it and blah blah blah, but my point is that time is one of the most common sacrifices to any god, and it can often be the most costly to us.

I disagree with the first couple of people in your thread because I believe God is perfect. He created us in perfection and gave us free will. In turn we fell into imperfection. We chose it!! IT is OUR fault.

That would be a difference in opinion, rather than a difference in theological logic, if there’s even such a thing. And mythology . . .

Eric for instance stated that you should respect imperfect gods for the same reason you respect your parents. (However, there is a point where parents are no longer worthy of respect).

Most Reconstructionists would probably disagree with you there. They would say that your parents are always worthy of at least your respect for the simple reason that they brought you into this world. You don’t necessarily have to like your parents, or even trust them if that’s the case, but you do always have to respect them.

I think people worship imperfect gods because they cannot relate with a perfect one.

Most pagans/heathens would agree with you there, including me.

Is it not easier for the human mind to worship imperfection since it is visible here on earth?

Not necessarily. It’s not always extraordinarily comforting to worship an imperfect diety, knowing that no one is ever, or ever could, swoop down from heaven and turn your life into this magical wonderland just because you ask. I find it a lot harder to worship an imperfect being because you end up being more responsible for your own actions, as well as for actions that aren’t necessarily your “fault”.

Just as it is is easier to fathom the idea of splitting up a god into multiple deities.

I don’t know, I would think it’d be easier to just combine all the gods into one so you don’t actually have to do the work of getting to know each individual one! Polytheism is major work, and it’s not exactly some golden straight path where everyone runs around singing “Hosanna!” (literally “God save!”)

If by the end of your life you figure this and other essentials out you have neared human perfection, to an extent.

One would think that since perfection is so vast and so unreachable in our human forms it would be a lot harder to obtain. That’s like saying “Although there are an infinite number of stairs on the staircase to perfection, if you just tap the first one you’ll be magically transported to the last one (assuming that that one exists, of course *grins*)>”

Ohh in response to your thread God gave us free will. We dont have to worship him but by worshipping him we find perfection. He only wishes us good.

But if perfection=heaven=salvation=worshiping God/leading a moral life, then how can one not worship God and yet gain perfection?

The first link u provided is kind of silly. His ways border extremism. It is true God is most important but all of this is not necessary. As long as you live a good life free of desire and unnecessary distractions you're good to go. Loving God is the most powerful form of worship.

But if one TRULY loves God, then wouldn’t that person want to spend as much time as possible with God? This piety which the author is talking about (wow, I’m really bad with names today!) is such an essential part of Greek piety that it’s hard for me to comprehend why someone wouldn’t want that in their life. By doing simple little things like blessing the food, or thanking Hermes every time you find some loose change on the floor, and many other things you are taking God(s) out of the temple/church/mosque and putting Him/them into your life. Soon everything you do will be filled with such a sense of divinity that never gets old or uninteresting because it is such an essential part of your natural behavior. Soon prayers will pour out of your mouth like water flows out of the stream and into the ocean of your existence. To paraphrase the Qu’ran, you feel that God(s) is/are ACTUALLY closer than your jugular vein. You stop worrying about salvation and perfection and start worshiping for the sake of worshiping. I have only had a glimpse of this kind of piety, but it is something that I really truly want. To have that kind of closeness with the gods would be . . . I can’t even find the words to say it. If this is “extremism” then perhaps it is the normality of faith that we should worry about, rather than the extreme.

Steve brought up a good point about this. Jesus' ultimate sacrifice was his death. But where is Jesus' body? It ressurrected. The material form is unimportant. Afterall, ultimate happiness is spiritual.

But if the sacrifice was an entirely spiritual one, then why did Jesus have to go through the whole bloody, nasty process of crucifixion on the material plane? If it was really entirely spiritual then wouldn’t Jesus have just disappeared on the night of his spiritual death and his body have just vanished?

Larissa

"Down we plunge to the dungeon of my black despair
Down we plunge to the prison of my mind!
Down that path, into darkness deep as hell!"

Andrew Lloyd Weber's The Phantom of the Opera
Based on Lereaux Gaston's book Le Phantome d'Opera

I might be getting a car yay!!!! It's a 94 Saab, standard, convertible. I've never seen it but that's ok. I don't care. It's better then i ever thought i'd get for a first car. I mean heated seats, headlight windshield wipers, automatic windows, convertible, and standard. ok i'm just a little excited. What if it's really ugly? I shouldn't build myself up so much. I'm so glad I have Aunt G...